How do you identify?

I identify as queer or bi. I use the terms interchangeably. I'm not very particular. I don't really care about labels, but if I must, those are the two I go with. And I identify as a woman.

What was your experience with religion growing up?

I grew up in an extremely religious household. 8:00 in the morning, every Sunday, “It's time to go to church!” My family is also Caribbean, so my parents are from Trinidad. There was never a choice. It was like, “We're Pentecostal. We're going to church every Sunday. We believe in God.” The whole nine. There was no option to do anything else.

Some things would make sense and other things wouldn't make sense. And the culture was, “you don't question God,” or, “you don't question anything.” I was one of the gifted kids. So it's like, “I think! I do nothing but think all day so you can't tell me to not ask anything.” It definitely started to feel very stifling and very limiting, so I was kinda just like, “I don't really feel this. It's not making sense to me.” But there was no space to explore that in a healthy way.

When did you start asking more of those questions internally?

At different times in my life I would kind of turn it on. I think there's also that fear mongering piece where it's like if you don't live right or you don't do what you're supposed to do, you're not going to heaven — that kind of stuff. And they tell you questioning things is the devil trying to get you or overtake your mind.

By the time I was in high school around 9th grade, I definitely started to question a lot — question myself and question what we were doing religion-wise.  The church we were going to was very small because it was an extension of another church, so our membership never really took off the way we needed it to. We were always having church and renting from other spaces —that kind of stuff. I think as the church foundation started to crumble, I was just like, “What are we doing? Like what are we REALLY doing here?”

And I was like 14, so you're very cynical at that age. Things are like, “well why…?” or “why not…?” or, “well does it have to be this way?” And yeah, I just found myself struggling. And by the time I moved into adulthood, undergrad, I just started to have even more questions. Like, “If God is real, then why do bad things happen to good people?” having faith, and prayer, and what's considered sin, and what's considered “right,” and, “not living right.” All those kinds of things definitely started to have me like…somebody ain't doing the math right!

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Community is one of the things that I think  is at the crux of the Black community. Because…Black. Community. We are innately and canonically people who lean on each other and the church itself is a sort of like micro-community. Those are definitely micro-communities in themselves. And I just don't think that churches understand the power of community sometimes. And on the flipside, I think they understand it a little too much as well. I think that's where things go south in church.

I think that piece was really important. Like the way that Black people build and participate in community is very specific. And even throughout the diaspora, we still see these traces of things that are common among all of us speaking from the perspective of the American south, Black churches. The way that hierarchies are constructed within churches just makes it a place that just doesn’t fit. And then there's also this piece where it's like, “well you don't go to church for people, you go for God!” but why can't I connect with God on my own time? I shouldn't have to go through a person to do that. And also like isn't the point of church to have a community of like-minded people who believe what you believe? And y'all congregate around that thing?

Yeah I really like that piece you said around, “If I'm going for God then can't I be with God on my own time?” I think a large part of the spirituality that not just the Black community in the context of the church is missing, but just in general —and of course, this is due to enslavement and colonialism — is the things that we held onto traditionally and they like colonized out of our own minds. The prospect that we are each our own gods and we're the rulers of our own universe and we do have control over our fate or destiny - or at least a little control over it. I think that anything that's outside of the realm of Christianity and the way that it's practiced within the Black community is seen as witchcraft or whatever. So if you're more of a spiritual person like I am, that's frowned upon. To what I was saying about the presence of God within oneself, a lot of the stuff we say in church also mirrors that. The Mary Mary song, “It's the God in Me.” “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”

“Greater works than these shall you also do.”

It's like we already say that God is within us so…what's the problem?

Like why are y'all so upset?!

How did your experiences with church and religion impact the way you viewed yourself and particularly, your queerness?

I think I always knew that I was queer. I think, of course, I questioned myself but I always knew. Like I always knew the answer to the question I was asking myself. But of course, my family members look at me like, “oh wow!” and I'm like I mean…always knew! But the environment I grew up in I was like, “welp…forget about that!”

But yeah I think eventually my authentic self could no longer hide. I think accepting myself, and freeing myself from the notions of what I'd been taught growing up. A lot of the patriarchal ideals, misogyny, and misogynoir that happens in the church like shaped the whole of who I was as a person. So there was a point in time when I was hyper-religious. Like, “I'm saving myself for marriage,” and all that stuff!

We've all been there. [laughs]

It's like I'm sitting here just lying to myself. None of this stuff really aligned with me and where I was. So I think also just the prospect of holiness and righteousness — I think those things I had to relearn on my own, because of course, in that setting we're always told what is holy and what is righteous.

I don't know if you know or listen to Jamilah Woods but she has a song called “Holy.” She takes some of the religious hymns or songs that are traditional and kinda flips it. One of the lyrics is, “Say amen to yourself.” So just like reminding ourselves or reminding myself that I am holy and I am righteous by my own standards. And that's what she also says. Like I'm holy by my own. I'm holy because I say I am.

Also unlearning that ‘God doesn't love me because I'm queer’ had to be part of it. I believe in God. I'm just not a very religious person per se or I say that I'm more of an Omnist. But I think definitely just doing some soul searching and relearning myself relearning my own spirituality definitely helped me see the religiosity in my Blackness and queerness and how our spaces are kinda religious. Well…they're sacred.

A lot of niggas are really churchy even the ones that don’t go to church. I can be churchy. It's there. It's just engrained. The reiteration of that whole point about God being a part of us inherently. And that's literally said throughout the Bible a million and two times like…you too, are an expression of the divine!

Absolutely!

So it's like why cant I just walk in that? And also the whole, “you should hate yourself because you're queer,” and it's like well why? Like we're made in God's image. God doesn't make any mistakes. God know what I like! God knows who I am. So what is the issue…? For me, bearing down into that arbitrary standard and that's constantly moving target of what's considered holy and righteous during the "playing straight" years. Like this shit makes no sense!

  Similarly to you, I've known I was queer since I was at least six, but didn't really fully come out — and when I say come out, I mean just tell my mama nem like, “fyi..heads up…hello…” — until this past summer. My friends have always known. Like no one was surprised. It's just one of those things like once I accepted that in myself, it wasn't hard for people who were actually in my corner to catch up. Like you said, I reached that point where it's like, I'm walking in my power, my identity fully. And that's just not something I can tiptoe around or ignore. It's part of who I am. It's not all of who I am but like…it's there. I'm a gay bitch. Sorry. I don’t know what to tell y'all! It's just not that serious.

And you can't pray it away either!

Where are you now with religion and spirituality?

Honestly, I just do my own thing. I do whatever makes sense for me. Like I said, I'm more of an Omnist. Omnism means that you find truth in all religions or just let people do their own thing. Just because I'm not a religious person doesn't mean that everyone else's religion is invalid. So I be like, “Amen! Asé! Inshallah!” all of that. Whoever's up there, whoever's shift is working!

Period. There you go.

And I think also just being around or seeing other queer people practice religion in a way that makes sense to them as well has been really validating. I wouldn't call myself a Christian per se, but Christianity I guess is the religion that I lean the most towards. One of my best friends is Muslim. She was raised Muslim. We talk about prayer and pray for each other. I think just being able to practice spirituality with her as a person who is queer, who grew a different type of religion, but also kind of is accepting of all religions. Learning from each other has been a really good step in my religious/spiritual journey.

What piece of advice would you give your younger self?

I think sometimes this question is hard for me because like…you don't know what you don't know. So I can't really fault my younger self for the way she felt, how she viewed herself, or how she treated herself. Cause I just didn't know anything outside of that or know better. But I think the biggest piece of advice I would give my younger self…I'd honestly just say hang in there. It's gonna get better. It's not always gonna be like this. And hold onto your truth cause sometimes that's all you have. Even though it may seem like your truth is a lie to everyone else or your truth is problematic to other people, at the end of the day, you're the one who has to live your life so do it for you. Don’t do it for anybody else. Hold onto that truth.